French Fergie

Put you photos of your Fergie here for all to see..

French Fergie

Postby stiv » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:27 pm

My new FF30DS, first registered in May 1957.

before RH side_opt (copy).jpg
Looks quite nice in the photo
before RH side_opt (copy).jpg (71.31 KiB) Viewed 1001 times


front view_opt (copy 3).jpg
Yeah, maybe the odd dent here and there
front view_opt (copy 3).jpg (59.44 KiB) Viewed 1001 times


"You just need to adjust the brakes", said the seller, showing me the simple 2 bolt way to do it.

I had seen, and expected, a few greasy oil stains in places so wasn't too worried by the stains on the wheels (actually, because I new nothing. I know now though).

LH axle oil leak_opt (copy).jpg
Tell tale signs... I'm such a novice!
LH axle oil leak_opt (copy).jpg (52.89 KiB) Viewed 1001 times


Anyway, the brakes still didn't work so I thought I'd whip the wheels off and have a look...

RH brake lining rot (copy)_opt (1) (copy).jpg
Adjust that if you can!
RH brake lining rot (copy)_opt (1) (copy).jpg (52.58 KiB) Viewed 1001 times

Somebody had smeared Treacle Butter all over the RH brake shoes and drum.

rotten RH brake lining_opt (copy).jpg
Rotten brake linings
rotten RH brake lining_opt (copy).jpg (45.91 KiB) Viewed 1001 times


Well the axles are out and the trumpets off (big thanks to Bundy Bear videos and various forum messages) and the job has started. The LH side only needs the inner seal for now, as the brakes were clean that side (the inner seal however was mangled - badly fitted?), and seeing the difficulty of getting the collar (I managed that) and the bearing off (I didn't manage that, and the RH axle is in a local workshop where they have a hydraulic press) I'm quite happy to just keep an eye on the LH side for now, with a new inner seal of course.

Otherwise, diesel in the engine sump... The dipstick came out covered to the top, though the oil soon cleared and left the dipstick almost clean. Thanks again to your posts I will attack that problem and not run the engine until I know what is up. In fact I changed the oil and thought I'd take it for a short run to see how quickly the oil became contaminated, but that is when I discovered that the brakes were so bad.

Ha, ha, it's taken me hours to get these photos sorted and on the message board, but now I know how it works there will be more pics to come soon.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby Grunt » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:14 pm

Those collars and bearings can be a little vexing to say the least. Have you had any thoughts on how the diesel may be getting into the engine oil?
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Re: French Fergie

Postby stiv » Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:46 pm

I did damage the axle a little with my drilling and by using a chisel too wide, which slipped as I hit it, but not life threatening I think. As for the engine oil, firstly, to be honest, I'm guessing that it is diesel. It's not coolant, I'm sure, because there's no sign of milkiness (in fact the 'coolant' is pure rainwater, as the seller told me, but reading on the forum I think I prefer to use a modern coolant for its protective properties - one of the next jobs...) and some posts on the forum lead me to think that it might be the lift pump membrane (sounds like the easiest fix and the one I'm hoping for...) and the lift pump is leaking anyway so I've ordered a repair kit, otherwise it may be the fuel pump or worse, but I'm in uncharted territory for me, learning as I go. Also, the transmission oil was over full and very black, which doesn't seem right, so maybe I have more internal problems to deal with. One step at a time for this relative beginner I think.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby Grunt » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am

I suppose if the lift pump diaphragm had a hole in it diesel could drain through into the engine but for the pump to carry on working to any degree it would have to be a fairly small hole. A repair kit is an easy job. The most difficult bit is getting the pump off the engine. Do a search on here I think I posted some pics to show what your up against.

I didn’t have the need to dismantle my injector pump so I’m not sure what there is in the way of a seal on the input shaft, I think Bundy Bear has done a you tube vid on it though. But even if a seal had gone on the input shaft I doubt that very much diesel could have got through to the engine from the pump because it’s not pressurised at that point.

Have you ruled out the thought that diesel could have been deliberately poured into the engine? It would be a cheap and easy way to raise the engine oil level on the dipstick when viewed by a prospective customer.

As for the transmission oil being black my first though would be that someone has recycled old engine oil which was and probably still is done as a cost cutting exercise especially if a previous owner has used rain water as coolant and used diesel to raise the engine oil!
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Re: French Fergie

Postby stiv » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:45 pm

To be totally honest I'm not much beyond the nuts and bolts stage at the moment - I can undo most nuts and bolts, even some really stubborn ones, and I was really pleased with myself for undoing the LH brake drum screws (which had taken a battering in someone elses hands). I recently even bought a torque wrench! Engines however, and what passes by which route inside them, and why, are still a bit of a mystery. I didn't understand how fuel in a lift pump, which I assumed was only used for priming the engine after an airlock etc., could even come in to contact with engine oil, but I read it somewhere and also that a faulty injector could be the cause of diesel in the engine oil. So much to learn, so much...

Grunt wrote:Have you ruled out the thought that diesel could have been deliberately poured into the engine? It would be a cheap and easy way to raise the engine oil level on the dipstick when viewed by a prospective customer.

Ha! I hadn't thought of that. I don't believe the seller knew much about stuff really. He told me that a friend had repaired the lift pump and that the diesel on the pump surface was probably because a bolt needed tightening. The same friend had also removed the old steering wheel for him (which I have), because he couldn't fit his bulk under it (he was a big lad right enough), and had replaced it with a tiny Renault steering wheel, which is just visible in the top photo. So anything is possible.

Grunt wrote:As for the transmission oil being black my first though would be that someone has recycled old engine oil which was and probably still is done as a cost cutting exercise especially if a previous owner has used rain water as coolant and used diesel to raise the engine oil!

This is also a good theory. The oil was thick for sure, not like the engine oil, so any chance of the engine oil contaminating the transmission sounds unlikely (if, indeed, that is even possible - see my first paragraph!). I'll have a search for your lift pump posting. It's definitely leaking a bit so worth checking.

Here are a few more photos.

Nice and mucky. Phew! Apparently that's alright then.
diff sump fergie gravel_opt.jpg
Is this the famous fergie gravel?
diff sump fergie gravel_opt.jpg (52.94 KiB) Viewed 967 times



Anyone know what these paint marks are for?
diff paint markings_opt.jpg
Nice and colourful...
diff paint markings_opt.jpg (60.47 KiB) Viewed 967 times


I can't work out why Ferguson would have fitted this blue fuel pipe... I guess you've all got one too.
fuel tap blue pipe_opt.jpg
Odd design feature...
fuel tap blue pipe_opt.jpg (49.95 KiB) Viewed 967 times


Not the original headlight switch I imagine.
dash RH side_opt.jpg
Rotten old switch, but it works...
dash RH side_opt.jpg (53.39 KiB) Viewed 967 times


Definitely a French Fergie.
cold start instruction plaque_opt.jpg
French instruction plate...
cold start instruction plaque_opt.jpg (52.17 KiB) Viewed 967 times


Photo limit reached.
More soon.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby Grunt » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:01 am

The blue tubing will just be what was to hand when the original one perished, mines black with a go faster red stripe. It looks like the pipe it’s connected to has been twisted while the nut was tightened, from here it looks bad enough to reduce the fuel flow through it.

The lift pump is the fuel pump, it supplies fuel under pressure to the injector pump, which then sends a timed amount of fuel under a lot higher pressure to the injectors.

The only way the lift pump could leak diesel into the engine is by a hole in its diaphragm, if the diaphragm is damaged in any way it won’t operate properly as it relies on the vacuum it creates to operate the one way valves that pumps the fuel. It operates by an arm running on a lobe on the camshaft.

Faulty injectors couldn’t really be blamed for diesel in the oil. It would have to drain through them onto the pistons and past the rings. The only time diesel gets to the injectors is when the injector pump is pumping it up there which is only when the engine is running and so if the diesel isn’t getting burnt it would be ejected past the exhaust valves.

The only way the injector pump could leak fuel into the engine is past the drive shaft and into the timing chest, though as the diesel isn’t pressurised in that bit of the pump the amount that could leak isn’t great. There is a drain tap on the pump try opening it to see if there’s excess diesel in there, don’t force the tap, if it’s the original one it doesn’t open in the direction you expect it to. The front cover is easy to get off if you want to see what’s going on in there.

We’ve seen oil in a lot worse condition than that but it looks like there’s a fair bit of debris in there. Those lock nuts on the diff should really be lock wired, check them for tightness first, mine were slack. I reckon the paint is from a over enthusiastic painter.

I think I recognise your light switch, I reckon it’s off a small bench grinder.

It would seem the excuse “A mate of mine did it” is international.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby stiv » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:38 pm

Firstly Grunt thank you very much for your excellent replies - fuel pump clarity!

Secondly I must apologise, I was only joking about the blue tubing. It looks as though the original pipe has been cut and redirected with the tubing to bypass the reserve tank (though I may be wrong..). I have the leaky reserve tank in a carrier bag in the shed (his 'friend' couldn't fix it apparently) and there is an unconnected pipe behind the cold start lever where something should be connected...
missing cold start (copy)_opt (copy).jpg
Cold start - Out Of Order
missing cold start (copy)_opt (copy).jpg (50.45 KiB) Viewed 954 times
Sorry pic is right way up on computer!?

More about fuel pumps later.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby Grunt » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:39 pm

No worries, I was joking about my pipe being black with a go faster stripe.

The reserve tank is the auxiliary tank, if the tractor is run for any length of time on an incline the fuel level in the main tank could end up below the tap so the fuel system would run dry, the system would then have to be bled to get the tractor running again, the auxiliary tank is there to stop this happening. The pipe leading from the back of the main fuel tank is a breather pipe and would have gone to the top of the auxiliary tank.

It looks like you have a pretty much complete Ki-Gass system with only the tank missing. The pumps and filter have been going for a fortune on U.K. eBay recently.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby stiv » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:11 pm

So, now I know what the sticky out thing at the back of fuel lift pump is and how it works in time with the engine camshaft. Your simple explanation was perfect. I had thought that the injector pump was the fuel pump and that the lift pump was just for bleeding etc.

Your reasoning makes me wonder if the engine was filled with diesel on purpose. Or has it been leaking for years and has finally filled up? I've refilled the engine with fresh oil, up to half way between the dipstick marks, and I think I will start using it like that (when I get the wheels back on!), keeping a very regular jeye on the level. The pump is leaking to the outside anyway so I'll use the repair kit and find out if the membrane has a hole in it, and the nut on the end of the pipe is well mangled too.
lift pump.JPG
knarled nut...
lift pump.JPG (107.52 KiB) Viewed 926 times

If there is a different problem I will investigate step by step.

Grunt wrote:There is a drain tap on the pump try opening it to see if there’s excess diesel in there, don’t force the tap, if it’s the original one it doesn’t open in the direction you expect it to. The front cover is easy to get off if you want to see what’s going on in there.

This tap you mean? Is it LH thread? Do you need to loosen the nut?
injector pump drain tap.JPG
Injector pump tap - LH thread?
injector pump drain tap.JPG (45.56 KiB) Viewed 926 times

They must have forseen a Brit buying it in the future...
injector pump.JPG
Injector pump...
injector pump.JPG (47.55 KiB) Viewed 926 times

Bilingual instructions!
injector pump bilingual sign.JPG
Bilingual signage...
injector pump bilingual sign.JPG (65.58 KiB) Viewed 926 times


Grunt wrote:Those lock nuts on the diff should really be lock wired, check them for tightness first, mine were slack.

The other side is wired, but I'll check tightness on LH side.
diff RH side wired bolts.JPG
RH diff wired bolts...
diff RH side wired bolts.JPG (47.82 KiB) Viewed 926 times


More about the Intjector pump soon.
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Re: French Fergie

Postby Grunt » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:06 am

This tap you mean? Is it LH thread? Do you need to loosen the nut?
From what I remember it is left handed, you turn it what seems the wrong way to open it, but when you think about it it’s the right way, if that makes sense!

The nut doesn’t need slackening, though if you can’t open the tap it might be a good idea to take the whole thing off to have a better go at it. Mine had been mangled to the point of being knackered possibly because of confusion as to which way it turns.
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