TEA-20 fuel line route

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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:24 am

kayno wrote:Also - is there a bush in the fuel tank outlet that the tap screws into? The hole in my tank seems larger compared to what I see in the photos of the tap, so wondering if there is a bush/reducer between tank and tap? Or maybe the tap is bigger in real life, compared to the photo of it!


I picked up the new fuel tap and bowl tonight, and answered my own question - it's bigger than it looks in the photos. In fact, it's somewhat too big, or there is something wrong with the thread in my tank. Previously, it had a plastic/nylon tap (looks like it's from a mower - branded "Victa") which I have taken out. I tried to screw in the new tap but it's very tight. I took a spanner to it, and got it in 1/3 of the thread, but then when i wound it out I realised I'm removing thread from the tap:

Image

I'm pretty certain it's not cross threaded, and the thread in the tank looks like it's brass (at least in colour) and it doesn't look damaged or dirty. I took a small brush to it to be sure, but I don't think it's dirt or anything. Anyone have any thoughts? Could the aftermarket tap be wrong thread/size? I feel like it's still sealing when it's would in, so I am hoping that once I have the tank ready to go back on the tractor, I'll screw it in once with a small amount of white plumbing tape, and leave it be.

And thanks Hiawatha for the detailed pics. I'm actually about to take possession of an old welder, so making my own battery carrier could be the best option. I don't have the battery bracket that's held on by the wingnuts which is disappointing, as it appears to be more than just a piece of steel strap.
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby rosco » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:49 pm

Could it be a tapered thread
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby Grunt » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:55 pm

From here the thread on your tap looks tapered, the thread on my TEA tank is UNF. It’s very unusual to have a taper UNF thread, taper threads are more commonly found on BSP and NPT threads. Rather than use PTFE tape on a parallel thread I’d use a liquid sealer, using tape and force will ‘stretch’ the threads causing permanent damage, there are loads of liquid thread sealants around, Loctite do one that works well.
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby Hiawatha » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:00 pm

Being branded ' Victa' makes it fairly obvious that the tap isn't the original one . You would know all about 'Victa ' lawnmowers Kayno .
It's most likely off one of the larger commercial models , walk behind self propelled mowers with a 36'' cut they were used by just about every football ground in Australia at one stage .
Look carefully around the threaded boss the tap screws into , see if there are signs of soldering that look a bit rough , the boss may have been added later . This isn't such an unusual thing , over tightening the tap can shear off the boss , it's probably simpler to replace both tap and boss when repairing .

Don't want to teach Grandma to suck eggs but you do know to be very careful of soldering and welding fuel tanks ?

With a TEA tank it is possible to use plumbing fittings fiddled down into the inside of the tank on a piece of wire and secured with a flat nut on the outside . It takes a bit of time but works well . Times two on the use of a thread sealer , ' Stag ' plumber's sealant is available at just about any plumber's shop , it's methylated spirit based so petrol won't harm it , it can resist E10 once dry as well .
Worst case as far as threads goes might see you having to have the right thread tapped into the tank by an engineering shop [ do they still exist in your part of OZ ? :cry: ]
-------- 1952 TED, 1957 FE35 Grey and Gold Deluxe
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:05 pm

Yes it does look tapered. Bare-co supplied it, says it for TE20 (they don't differentiate between TE, TEA, TED).

Would running a 3/8 UNF die over the tap thread be worth a shot?
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:09 am

Hiawatha wrote:Being branded ' Victa' makes it fairly obvious that the tap isn't the original one . You would know all about 'Victa ' lawnmowers Kayno .
It's most likely off one of the larger commercial models , walk behind self propelled mowers with a 36'' cut they were used by just about every football ground in Australia at one stage .


Yes but I think most likely a push mower - the fuel tap that was in it when i got it looks like:

Image

and it had a nylon bush between the tank and tap (as the tap thread is only about 8mm in diameter). I don't think the nylon bush has cut a new thread in the tank, so I'm guessing at some point something happened to the original tap and bowl assembly, and a "Replacement" was salvaged from a mower!

Hiawatha wrote:Look carefully around the threaded boss the tap screws into , see if there are signs of soldering that look a bit rough , the boss may have been added later . This isn't such an unusual thing , over tightening the tap can shear off the boss , it's probably simpler to replace both tap and boss when repairing .


I'll reassess it. It does look pretty original, and also in good condition. Hopefully I've not damaged it with trying to get the new tap in.

Hiawatha wrote:Don't want to teach Grandma to suck eggs but you do know to be very careful of soldering and welding fuel tanks ?


Advice like this is always appreciated - better to suck eggs then blow yourself up. I won't be welding, and given my limited range of tools/equipment, I will be attempting the solder job with a hobby electronics soldering iron. I'm not sure it will heat it up enough - wish me luck!

The tank has been without fuel and lid for 20 years - fairly well dried out and aired! I vacuumed out the dust/dirt/etc but I think that little filter from the Victa tap is still rolling around in there :)

Hiawatha wrote:With a TEA tank it is possible to use plumbing fittings fiddled down into the inside of the tank on a piece of wire and secured with a flat nut on the outside . It takes a bit of time but works well . Times two on the use of a thread sealer , ' Stag ' plumber's sealant is available at just about any plumber's shop , it's methylated spirit based so petrol won't harm it , it can resist E10 once dry as well .
Worst case as far as threads goes might see you having to have the right thread tapped into the tank by an engineering shop [ do they still exist in your part of OZ ? :cry: ]


Yeah I'll either buy a cheap tap and die set or find an engineering shop. I'm sure they exist here but I worry what they would charge! I've been given a ball-park figure to have the new fuel line fabricated - $50-80.
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:46 am

Pics of the tank:

Image Image

If anyone can confirm that looks original, I'd be grateful :)

And the Victa tap that was it it:

Image
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby Hiawatha » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:53 am

A stock standard and relatively unmucked with boss Kayno , nothing to worry about there .
I am amazed that the Victa tap ever worked , they are $h!ts of things !
Once years ago I was in a bearing shop , a loud Pom at the counter was skiting about how it was he that designed the Victa Mower fuel tap , as a man the five fellows waiting , including me all called him a B@$t@rd for burdening the world with such a piece of cr@p :lol:
A run through with a thread chaser or at worst a retap is probably all the boss needs to be serviceable again .Rather than an electric soldering iron that is unlikely to generate enough heat an old school Plumbers iron might be a better choice for small hole repairs . Heat the tank up with a heat gun to help it along , then a solder bit of an inch square should have enough heat in it to seal the odd leak .
I once saw 'Old Geoff' at the tractor haunt seal the base of a rusted out tank , he had a low flat dish full of lead on a four burner barbecue , he sat the tank onto this a few times to heat it then added flux , once warm and prepared he plunged it into the lead / solder a few times till it was coated completely . I watched this horrified from a discrete distance :shock: The tank was perfect !

I am confused over the tapered thread though , unless it's a TEA thing I suspect it's probably an aftermarket innovation to help seal in worn tanks . The threads on the banjo bolts used to fasten TED tanks are brass and parallel .
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26&start=30

Original taps also had a ' cigarette filter ' on the intake side , this was a bronze mesh useless thing that was best ripped off and thrown over a bad neighbour's fence . They disintegrated and filled the tank with jet blocking bits of mesh that caused no end of grief . The cage left from this could also be the thing rattling about in the tank .
-------- 1952 TED, 1957 FE35 Grey and Gold Deluxe
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:37 am

Grunt wrote:the thread on my TEA tank is UNF


I'm starting to wonder what size thread in the tank came out of the factory. I've been on the blower (email) to a reputable source who tells me that the thread on my bare-co tap is correct, and the correct thread in the tank should be 3/8 BSP tapered...

I'm unsure who is wrong, and maybe you are both right, but that's beside the point! I'm glad they don't sell 3/8 UNF dies at Bunnings on Saturday mornings though - my new tap could have been way worse for wear!

Googling, I've found this: https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ferg ... 53M91.html. It's obviously aftermarket and doesn't have a bowl, but it says it's 3/8 BSP and (among other models) suits a TEA20.

This ebay listing, https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FTP5901-Fue ... 2442238647, says:

- tank fitting thread 3/8 Gas tapered (16mm OD)
- port thread 7/16 UNF for flared 1/4in OD tube fitting

and then https://agspares.co.nz/product/Fuel-Bow ... trol-E3130 says "1/8 inch NPT" - I assume this is a mistake?
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Re: TEA-20 fuel line route

Postby kayno » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:42 pm

Hiawatha wrote:A run through with a thread chaser or at worst a retap is probably all the boss needs to be serviceable again


I've never heard of a thread chaser before. Googled it, and looks like it would do the job, and if not a tap (from a tap/die set) should do it.

I'm convinced it's 3/8 BSP now. Yet another (slightly different) tap and bowl assembly for a TEA-20 with thread dimensions here: https://old20tractorparts.com/ferguson- ... 0046k.html

Image

This particular site has a nice looking oil gauge and oil gauge pipe too - I need both (seems somebody wanted all the pipework off of my TEA-20 - also missing the air cleaner pipe!). One day Hiawatha I will ask you kindly for photos of the oil pressure feed pipe route to the gauge - once I get a gauge and new pipe! What's left of my pipe stops at the bell housing, and I can't see how it would get from the gauge and past the battery.

Hiawatha wrote:Rather than an electric soldering iron that is unlikely to generate enough heat an old school Plumbers iron might be a better choice for small hole repairs . Heat the tank up with a heat gun to help it along , then a solder bit of an inch square should have enough heat in it to seal the odd leak .


plumbers iron or heat gun - two things I do not have. I do have initiative though - I have an old school halogen desk light on the bench in the shed that gets very hot. 30 mins of it focused closely on the tank was enough to make it too hot to touch, and my little soldering iron was then good enough to flow the solder and get it to stick. I fixed up the two holes, added 1/2 cup of petrol to the tank, and found too more holes that I need to repair!

Hiawatha wrote:I am confused over the tapered thread though , unless it's a TEA thing I suspect it's probably an aftermarket innovation to help seal in worn tanks . The threads on the banjo bolts used to fasten TED tanks are brass and parallel .
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=26&start=30


I think it's pretty standard for BSP (or BSPT - T for tapered) to taper. I image it makes a better seal as the thread is driven home.

Hiawatha wrote:Original taps also had a ' cigarette filter ' on the intake side , this was a bronze mesh useless thing that was best ripped off and thrown over a bad neighbour's fence . They disintegrated and filled the tank with jet blocking bits of mesh that caused no end of grief . The cage left from this could also be the thing rattling about in the tank .


Whilst I might be short a bunch of other tools and gadgets, I do have access to an el-cheapo endoscope with LED lights! I had a look inside the tank and it's rather rusty/corroded inside! I had to pass the camera through the baffles to find the rattler though. I believe it to be at least two things - a filter from the tap, as well as a circle ring which I reckon is part of a fuel cap. No idea how they got past the baffles. Here's a pic of them from inside the tank:

Image
upload
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