Diesel filters and lift pumps

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Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby stiv » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:09 pm

Happy as I am to join the club of elite and renowned Fergie owners and mechanics who have started their diesels only to have them cough and splutter a few minutes later because the main fuel tap was off, when doing this myself, for the third time (I turn it off because the lift pump has leaked since I bought the tractor), I noticed that the bleed screw (bolt) on the top of the primary fuel filter was not tightening properly.
Primary fuel filter bleed nut-600x337.JPG
Primary fuel filter bleed nut-600x337.JPG (72.05 KiB) Viewed 184 times

It tightened a bit and then came loose again - stripped thread was the obvious diagnosis. I tightened it just to the biting point and it seemed to hold. No leak.

Until yesterday evening, when I refitted the oil gauge, and I saw a good amount of diesel trickling out...

I was putting off redoing the fuel system until I had a bit more time, but voila!, I'm doing it now...

I think that the filters and pumps on the FF30DS are similar to the TEF20, but are French made, so there may well be differences.
Primary fuel filter top-600x337.JPG
Primary fuel filter top-600x337.JPG (82.11 KiB) Viewed 184 times
This is the same part as in the photo above, but cleaned up a bit and with the bolt removed. Looking at the TEF20 parts manual I can see that there is no bleed screw on the top of the primary filter, and the long securing bolt comes in at the bottom on mine.
Fuel filter long bolt-600x494.JPG
Fuel filter long bolt-600x494.JPG (102.21 KiB) Viewed 184 times
This is the bolt from the secondary filter, the other one is missing the clip and spring..!

I'll get me wallet...

The bleed screw thread was stripped in the aluminium housing - there was a trace of PTFE tape on the bolt, so it suggests that the problem is an old one. By way of finding out what thread it was, I suspected metric, I ran a tap and die over nut and hole (8mm - 1.25, for those who know about such things). I didn't need to use the support tool for either, just hand pressure was enough, though I used a cloth for better grip with the tap. Just to see how bad the problem was I put the nut in, and lo! What problem? The thread was sufficiently good to tighten the bolt. I don't think it's going to be strong, but with a rubber/felt/copper washer (which is best?) it might seal well enough (the washer fitted is metal, not copper, which doesn't seem right to me...)

So, if I can get the bits for the bolt all may be ok. As for the filter top, if the bleed screw leaks again, would it be possible, in your considered opinions, to redo the thread a size up?

Turning to the fuel lift pump...
Lift pump off engine-600x337.JPG
Lift pump off engine-600x337.JPG (80.47 KiB) Viewed 184 times
Well, that is another can of worms. Quite literally, possibly, as I'm sure I saw something move in the orange sludge at the bottom of it. An oil resistant cousin of the worms that live next to the deep sea sulphur vents perhaps..?

I'll get me dipping net...
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby Grunt » Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:21 am

As for the filter top, if the bleed screw leaks again, would it be possible, in your considered opinions, to redo the thread a size up?
I suppose if it’s knackered it’s knackered and you don’t have much choice, though I’m not sure what the internals are like, has the hole got a conical bottom that the bolt should seal against. A helicoil might be the answer. I haven’t done the sums but if you went up to an imperial thread you may remove remove less material.

If you used a Dowty washer and or liquid PTFE on the thread you may get away without tightening it so much.

Another of my pet hates is PTFE tape on parallel threads it usually ends up knackering the female thread, generally speaking parallel threads should seal under the head of the bolt or at the bottom of the hole.
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby stiv » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:19 pm

Too difficult to take a good photo of it without some kind of super macro lens, but it's just a hole into the lower passage and therefore seals at the top, hence the need for a washer. It's only purpose is for bleeding the system, so IF... I remember not to run the engine with the tap off, it will only ever get used for filter changing or other fuel problems. That said, it's still a big IF..., and if (small if) the thread doesn't hold, then I shall look into retapping the hole. As you say, the next size up might be imperial. Ha, ha! Then I'd have to find an imperial bolt...

I don't know what a dowty washer is, but shall enjoy looking it up.

So much to learn... So much...
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby stiv » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:10 pm

An update to close the post.

Eventually, 10 minutes here, and 15 minutes there, I've sorted out the filters and lift pump.

For the filter retaining bolt, I found an old spring (in my version of Grunt's biscuit tin of bits hee, hee), which I shortened to fit, and created a spring clip from a small split pin. It doesn't spring, of course, but does sit tightly in the groove and holds everything in place. The 8mm bleed screw/nut I had to redo in the end. Not being in imperial land, I opted to drill and tap for a 10mm nut, which, with a leather washer from the plumbing box, works perfectly. Hurrah!
New fuel bleed nut-600x337.JPG
New fuel bleed nut-600x337.JPG (70.3 KiB) Viewed 128 times


The lift pump wasn't quite the disaster I first thought. The membrane in the repair kit did fit, and there was a correct sized rubber seal for the top, which had somehow rolled off to the side when I first opened the packet, but the metal sealed valves were too small, and rattled about in the hole. I simply cut one open and used the spring and sealing disc with the crown of the original fitting.
Lift pump valve-600x337.JPG
Lift pump valve-600x337.JPG (69.51 KiB) Viewed 128 times

It too seems to work perfectly. Hurrah!

However, there is still a small leak (!), which I will have to live with for now. It's coming from this mangled nut.
Leaky fuel pipe joint-600x337.JPG
Leaky fuel pipe joint-600x337.JPG (64.83 KiB) Viewed 128 times


The system has been adapted to work without the leaky reserve tank (which I have), and this pipe has been cut and soldered to fit.
Old fuel pipe, cut and soldered to fit-600x337.JPG
Old fuel pipe, cut and soldered to fit-600x337.JPG (69.72 KiB) Viewed 128 times

I have a new one, but am loathe to bend it to fit in. I hope to get the leaky tank sorted at some point.

Mon dieu! The engine sounds lovely. I'm amazed at the difference, as I didn't think it was too bad anyway, but it's smooth and gentle now that some fuel is getting through the pump and filters. The downside is that I will no longer get 600 mpg, of course!

To celebrate (and just an excuse to take a trip) we went to pick some figs. I stood on the seat to get at the upper branches (yes, I did take my shoes off...) and hung the bucket on the handy fruit collecting bucket hook which Ferguson had wisely thought of.
Fergie fig harvest-600x337.JPG
Fergie fig harvest-600x337.JPG (93.75 KiB) Viewed 128 times

Hurrah!

And hurrah again!
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby Hiawatha » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:03 am

Don't be too scared to bend the new copper pipe into the correct shape Stiv . There is a simple trick to use , heat it over a gas ring or with a torch being careful not to melt the soldered ends . This will anneal the copper and remove any stress hardening that may have occurred when it was made , the tube will be quite soft once it has cooled down . If you are still worried about kinks then packing the tube really tightly with fine dry sand works . Tamp it in as hard as you can and block the ends with cork , bend away . Of course you must be particularly careful to remove all the sand afterwards .
-------- 1952 TED, 1957 FE35 Grey and Gold Deluxe
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby Grunt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:01 am

and hung the bucket on the handy fruit collecting bucket hook which Ferguson had wisely thought of.
He really did think of everything.
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby stiv » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:15 pm

Ha, ha! Though looking at the photo again I'm wondering if the bucket will still fit once I've put the mudguards back on, which I can now that I know that the back end seals are not leaking. It looks a bit bare without...

And of course, 48hrs later, there are signs of small leaks from 2 of the banjo bolts... I did stupidly reuse the original fibre washers, not having any others to hand. It's not leaking much, so I'll live with it for now, but annoying all the same...
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby stiv » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:45 am

Hiawatha wrote:Don't be too scared to bend the new copper pipe into the correct shape

Thanks for these tips Hiawatha.

I found an old fuel pipe when digging over a bit of garden recently, and did not, of course, throw it away (who would?), so I can have a practice on that. It's probably full of soil already, but I'll clean it up and try with and without fine sand.
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Re: Diesel filters and lift pumps

Postby Grunt » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:34 am

in I'm wondering if the bucket will still fit once I've put the mudguards back on
In that case with a bit of ingenuity you could re design the bucket and come up with something that people will dash out and buy, it might be totally useless but it will become “on trend”. A bit like modern bathroom appliances.
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